In Episode 192, Ben and Scott talk about the deprecation of Internet Explorer, the impacts of Cloud Shell being open-sourced, and a new button Microsoft Teams for starting new conversations.

- Welcome to episode 192 of the Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast, recorded live, August 23rd, 2020. This is a show about Microsoft 365 and Azure from the perspective of IT pros and end users where we discuss a recent topic or news and how it relates to you. And this episode, Ben and Scott get back on track and start off the show talking about the new Microsoft Flight Simulator, as well as the latest DARPA AI project. And from there, we dive into Microsoft 365 and Azure news talking about the Microsoft Cloud Shell, about Internet Explorer 11, Microsoft Forms Pro, Microsoft Ignite, and other news and announcements related to Microsoft 365 and Azure.

- I don't even know how to start. I have nothing creative. It's episode 192. A month from now, we're going to be recording 200, Scott. What are we going to do for, I feel like we should do something for 200. We didn't do anything for 100. We are very poor at celebrating our accomplishments.

- What could we do? Continue to stay inside some more?

- Sure.

- We've gt that going for us.

- Two months away, two months, it's the end of some month and the year 2020. October, it'll be like Halloween, right-ish?

- So it'll only be, you know, 105, and it'll be nice and humid outside.

- Yeah, maybe we can dress up since we did start doing videos, Scott. Last week's episode, I actually published, we were recording our video, I went in and marked it up a little bit. But we actually published video of us on YouTube. So if you want the whole unedited video version of the podcast, you can go find it on YouTube now. And we'll see, hopefully I can keep doing it. I need to fix my camera though. I have a standup desk that wiggles, as you can probably see in my video.

- Yeah, well, we'll have to add not only a non-wiggly camera, but like a discord chat or something like that.

- Oh, man, this is going to get to be a lot of work.

- I know.

- So do you want my random news for the day? I have two random news articles for you. Which one do you want, one or two? This one's more interesting.

- Well, let's back up. So Flight Simulator came out. Have you played it yet.

- No, but it has a 212-story building, you know, in a city.

- It's in Melbourne, it's in Melbourne, Australia. Do you know how they got that 212-story obelisk inside the middle of the city?

- You found one of my random links and I have not read it all yet, other than somebody had a typo somewhere and they scraped the data from there and that's how it got there. But I have not had a chance to read all the details.

- So mapping is an interesting thing. You know, there's a lot of companies out there that potentially provide map data. There are certainly some that build their own. You think maybe about like Google or Apple, you know, driving cars around for their street views and things like that. But they're also collecting telemetry and road data. You've got navigation applications like, coming from the Tom-Toms of the world, maybe you've got Waze. So there's kind of commercial open-source things out there. And one of the things that Microsoft bases it's data, map data off of, for not only Flight Simulator, but things like potentially Bing is OpenStreetMap. And in OpenStreetMap, there's an entry for a building in Melbourne, Australia, which is two stories tall, but was inadvertently entered through a typo to be 212 stories. And when you are leveraging OpenStreetMap and kind of taking it as a source of truth, you would just say, Hey, here's a thing that we need to render on our map in realtime. So combine it with satellite imagery data and kind of do the 3D overlay on it.

- And there you have it 212-story building. Have you played it yet? It looks like, I haven't seen how big it is. It's said it comes on 10 DVDs. And I watched some YouTube videos of people getting like their Microsoft unboxing kits of it with all the accessories. I won't lie, I was kind of jealous of these people getting top of the line yokes and sticks and throttle controls along with the game from Microsoft.

- Yes, so I did, I don't have any of that stuff. And embarrassingly, I can't start the download this month because I live under the Comcast regime, and if I do, I will go over my data cap, because it is a massive, massive download. So it's on the order of 130 to 150 gigs just to kind of run through the pre-install for it.

- Yeah, that sounds about right if it's 10 DVDs worth of data.

- Yeah, so if you are a Game Pass subscriber, like a Microsoft Game Pass Ultimate subscriber, there's a version in the Windows Store that you can get through Game Pass for, quote/unquote, free, because it is part of your existing subscription.

- I wonder if I can play it in a VM.

- I did it and you really cannot.

- Yeah, that was kind of my guess.

- Yeah. That was going to be my first thing, was like loaded up inside parallels, but I actually went and stole one of my kids' laptops because it's got a newer Radeon chip in it.

- That's funny.

- So maybe I'll come over to your place and like just hang on the wifi and download it or something.

- Perfect, well, cause I have two internet connections now. So I have two one-terabyte limits. I have a terabyte limit from AT&T and a terabyte limit from Xfinity. So we'll just pick the one that I'm the lowest on. You can download it on that one.

- That's the way to do it. So Flight Simulator, that'll be the thing to do.

- Alright, so my next one is along the same lines. Did you follow any of the DARPA stuff the last few days?

- I have not--

- So DARPA had the alpha dogfight trials, and what this was, I should send you a link to this, is a AI competition with AI dogfights, I think that, there it goes, with AI dog fighting. So essentially a simulated dogfight between F-16s. So there were eight, I think there were eight teams. They've whittled it down over the course of, apparently this whole thing has been going on for awhile. But they whittled it down over the course of the last year or so, and then had the finals of it over the last three days where these eight teams were all having simulated dog fights all using AI, teaching their models as they were running through these simulations. And then they capped it all off with the winner of the competition flying against one of the top F-16 pilots, and it was an AI versus human dogfight in a simulated environment. And it was, I watched some of it off and on and it was fascinating to watch the AI battles, but then watching AI versus humans. And all I can say, Scott, is the human race is in trouble. We're going to get exterminated by the machines.

- Skynet is real?

- Skynet is real. No, it wasn't even close. Like, it was absolute domination by the AI flying the F-16 versus the human. I'm not a pilot nor have I ever been in the military, but just watching it from my perspective, a lot of it seemed to be the fact that, using the AI, once the planes got close to having them in the cone of a legitimate gunshot, the AI was able to precisely aim a lot better than the human was. Kind of like, you know, when you go play video games and if you put like any of the first-person shooters on the expert level, and those bots always seem to be able to precisely aim, it kind of felt like that in these dogfights. That aiming ability was just a lot more steady and a lot more precise than somebody's hands.

- Yeah, you know, I think that was always one of the things, right? Computers don't have any, you know, they don't have any shake, they don't have any muscle memory to overcome or, you know, getting nervous in those situations. You also have to contend with, if an AI is driving the process, like say it was even a real plane that was being driven by AI, there's nothing to contend with in the way of natural physical force. So you don't have to worry about overcoming G-forces in a bank or anything like that. And as a human, right, as a bag of like meaty flesh, you are at a tactical disadvantage.

- Yeah, so it was interesting. They streamed a bunch of it on YouTube. So I think that all the YouTube videos are still out there, so we can link to this article or you can go search for the alpha dog fight trials and watch some of the videos. And there's definitely a lot of it you can skip through, because there was a lot of talking but, I mean, the fun part was the AI battles.

- Yeah, that's the best kind of YouTube, all the stuff that you can skip through. Maybe you just go find the alpha dog fight on TikTok and then doom scroll your way through it.

- Yes, TikTok is banned in the US, Scott. No TikTok, bad TikTok.

- Not yet.

- We're going to make the internet great again.

- It still has days left. Days, I say.

- Okay, and that's all the political stuff we're getting into on this podcast.

- Oh, what else?

- On to news doomsday. Here's a terrible segue. Doomsday, Internet Explorer is going to meet its doom in 2021 when it comes to the Microsoft 365 apps. So I think this was, they announced it the 17th, they announced it four days ago. So earlier this week, August 17, Microsoft announced you have one year of support for Internet Explorer 11 and Microsoft Edge legacy to work or to be supported. I guess it doesn't mean it's not gonna work, but to be supported in internet Explorer 11. So come August 17, 2021, the only supported browsers for Microsoft 365 are going to be the new Edge, and then I'm going to assume, Chrome, Safari, Firefox are all going to stay supported as well. But maybe, finally, people are starting to kick IE 11 to the curb.

- One can only hope. You know, it was a weird road to get to Credge. and I think some people are still put off by the way the upgrades occurred, you know, if you're still on like a, say, like a Windows 10 device that hasn't been upgraded to Credge yet, you know, you gotta go through that whole full-screen upgrade experience, and it feels very much like it's being just shoved into your face and pushed down your throat, whether you like the taste of it or not. But it is, I mean, it's a good thing. It gets everything to you, a better place. You get off kind of a Internet Explorer, the older Internet Explorer and the Triton engine. You get away from Edge HTML and everything comes over to, you know, just a better, more compatible world when you consider web app compatibility in the broader spectrum.

- Yes. And it will help people like Gary because Gary commented on this and said, "Will Edge natively support SharePoint, view in File Explorer with the whole ActiveX thing?" Gary, you should not be using that anyways, so it doesn't matter. Sorry, Gary. I don't know if you listen, but if you do, I apologize, but stop using it.

- So for organizations that are in that boat, say, you have on premises applications that you feel can't be upgraded, or there's some major blocker there for you, there is FastTrack assistance. So if you are on an eligible Windows 10 or Microsoft 365 subscription, you can actually have, and you have more than 150 seats, I believe, is the threshold to get in there, you can have FastTrack come in and they will provide things like remote deployment guidance and compatibility assistance. So they can help you do things like inventory the list of sites that might require this thing called Internet Explorer mode, and then help provide that operational guidance for you to do things like enable that. So they can do a lot of things that kind of, you know, onsite support is out of scope for them. They're not going to do project management for you. But they can come in and integrate with your team, and your kind of operational team, right, on your premises and help you figure some of that stuff out.

- Yeah, there's definitely, like they understand that people are gonna have some struggles with us, and they are, I feel like, at least, from this and some of the programs that often, they're trying to help people out and help them smooth out this transition is best that they're able.

- Yes. Yeah, so you've got things like FastTrack out there--

- And that's like that whole App Assure, which I think is what you were talking where they'll go in and kind of help you do that app analysis--

- Well, so there's two, there's kind of two things there. So there's FastTrack and the FastTrack program, and then there's also App Assure, which is, of the top, I think that's more targeted to this recognition that there are legacy applications out there that just need to go away. They need to be transformed and they need to be updated, and App Assure potentially steps in a little bit, a little bit more heavy-handed and can help with that transformation. So this thing is mission critical and it needs to be rewritten, but we don't know how to rewrite it. You know, what's the type of guidance that you potentially need as a customer to make that happen so that legacy Internet Explorer can finally be put to bed and can just live out its life watching soap operas and, you know, eating Cheetos, whatever it is.

- Yup. Oh, I did scroll down, the Microsoft 365 Edge product team also replied to Gary and said stop using it. They were much more diplomatic than that.

- Yeah, I'm sure. Politically correct is the thing.

- Yeah.

- So there there's all sorts of, all sorts of things going on there. Another legacy thing that is getting cleaned up is code signing requirements for Windows updates. So in the past, you might have things that were, say, signed with a SHA-1 or SHA-2 algorithm. Now everything is coming over to, everything's coming over to SHA-2. So this does have some impacts, particularly, for those customers who run legacy operating systems. So in context, we'll define legacy as Windows 7, Server 2008 R2, and also Windows Server 2008, as well. And for those too, they're going to be subject to the SHA-2 code signing requirements, because every update that comes from Windows Update is going to be signed this way as of last month, July, 2019. And it's not just Windows updates, like things on the Download Center got updated as well. So there's all sorts of downstream impacts here to things to think about, particularly, if you have legacy clients that sit out there.

- Got it. You realize that was not last month. That was last year. It's been a long 2020.

- It has.

- No, but yes, they're like officially discontinued as of this month.

- Yeah, maybe that's it. I'm getting all confused-- There was a bunch of stuff in the Download Center that just straight up deprecated out and it isn't there anymore.

- Yes, no, it was more that you said last month, and then you said July, 2019, and I was like, wait a minute, has 2020 really been that long or that messed up?

- It has.

- It really has, yes. But yeah, if you do go look at the timeline, like August, 2020 was when those SHA-1 service-based endpoints are officially discontinued. So this is been a process and it has reached the end of the road. You know what else has reached the end of the road? We're full of deprecation announcements today. Forms Pro, in name, has reached the end of the road. Microsoft Forms Pro is now Microsoft Dynamics 365 Customer Voice.

- I don't even, can't even, yeah.

- Apparently, Forms is still Forms. Apparently, now we have Microsoft Forms and we have Microsoft Dynamics 365 Customer Voice, otherwise known as MD365CV in my own head. It doesn't make any sense. Apparently, so I've been reading a few other articles, I don't know if I sent this one to you or not. There was a message in the message center about this back in July according to, so Daniel Glenn and Carol Webster were talking about this, and they said, back in July, there was a message center update about this. It is, it's bizarre, one, because it doesn't look like it actually writes any of that data back to CDS, which is kind of what I thought the whole purpose of a feedback tool for Dynamics 365 would be, as a lot of people take surveys, a lot of people answer questions, do all of this and let's write it back to Dynamics 365.

- You mean like integrate into the ecosystem that it's a part of.

- Yeah, yeah, that type of thing. It doesn't look like it does that, and I don't, this is another one of those I frankly just don't understand. If I go into my environment, it's still all says Forms Pro too. Like I can go into my forms.microsoft.com and it says Forms Pro and it lets me pick my Power Platform environment that I'm working in, and I have the extra features, but I don't see anything in my tenant about this Dynamics 365 Customer Voice product... There's very little behind, very little backstory, I guess, to why this is happening and what the purpose of it is to the point that it was even just announced in a Twitter post. Like there's even an official Microsoft blog post for this. It was just the--

- Just the landing page.

- Right, the landing page says the name has been changed. There was the message in the message center, and then there was a Twitter post on August 17, which apparently, according to the message center, was like a month after it actually changed its name. But when you first sent this to me, I actually asked like, is there two Microsoft Forms Pro products and that's why they're renaming this. It made that little sense to me. But no, this is the Microsoft Forms, the Pro skew of the standard Microsoft Form service that we're used to. I don't know.

- You don't know.

- I don't know. So that's all my deprecation news. I have some new announcements too. Do you want me to keep going or do you have one you want to talk about now?

- Well, I mean, there's always, always new things out there. Did you see that the Cloud Shell was open-sourced?

- I saw the article and I have not had any chance to read about it other than I saw that Cloud Shell was open-sourced.

- Yeah, so I think we've talked about Cloud Shell in the past and it's that little, well, it's the shell in the cloud that pops up inside the Azure portal when you go ahead and click the little terminal icon. It's available inside of mobile tools, like the Azure mobile app on iOS and Google. So having access to a Power Shell or a pure Bash shell on the go kind of thing. So Microsoft has done a couple different things there. They open-sourced Cloud Shell, and specifically, when I say open-sourced, they currently have pushed that image out, or that project out onto GitHub as part of the official kind of Azure organization. And there's a couple of nice things about that. So you might not want to build Cloud Shell for yourself because you just kind of rely on it in the portal and that's enough for you, and that's okay. But I think the more kind of interesting thing there is the ability to crawl through, to crawl through that source code and be able to understand all the tools that Microsoft employees, as part of Cloud shell, like what goes into that build pipeline, and what does that look like? Because Cloud Shell is more than just Bash or PowerShell. That includes things like JQ, Terraforms in there, Ansibles in there. There's things like SQL commands. Obviously there's the Azure CLI, there's the Azure PowerShell commandlets. So there's lots and lots and lots of, lots and lots of stuff in there. And you might want to understand not only what goes in, because it's surprisingly not documented in totality on docs.microsoft.com, but what versions of things go in, and potentially have insights into when newer versions of those things are going to come, right? Do you deploy, maybe like a .NET core console application that you have your operators download through Cloud Shell so that it can do kind of machinations against other Azure resources? Well, then you're trying to dependencies on things like, Hey, what's the version of .NET core that's installed in Cloud Shell. So that can be helpful to understand, and, you know, just generally manage that life cycle along the way. Now they open-sourced Cloud Shell. They also announced some new previews for Cloud Shell kind of right alongside that, which potentially got lost in the noise. And one of the perhaps more interesting ones there that I saw is you can also now deploy Cloud Shell directly into an Azure virtual network. So this means that you can not only still deploy cloud Shell, but you can have it connect directly to resources in your connected virtual network. So those might be virtual machines. Maybe you've got like a file share that you want to connect to. Say, you're managing a private Kubernetes cluster. Well, now Cloud Shell can get in there and do all those things for you, which potentially cuts down on you having to do things like leave a jump box or a bastion host up all the time. You get better resource management because you're deploying on-demand. You can still do things like mount your custom drives. It's kinda just more goodness for that ecosystem, and it makes it a little easier to latch onto.

- Interesting. I'm assuming then if you can deploy it that way, you can also not only deploy directly into that environment, but then segment it out off from other environments, which would give you the ability to allow users to go use Cloud Shell against certain resources, but not necessarily even have to worry about, are back controls securing the other resources because Cloud Shell is truly isolated to just a single network or a single environment.

- Well, you still worry about those things, right?

- There's an extra layer of security. That's probably a better way to phrase that.

- Yeah, I look at it as not potentially an extra layer of security from like an exfiltration perspective. Like you are like, okay, they're deployed in Cloud Shell and can they get out to the other things? It's like they're deployed in Cloud Shell and what can they get into while they're here? And it's going to be those private resources, right? There's been this, this steady march to enable more private connectivity to Azure resources over things like private endpoints and private links. So how do we interact with these paths services and with these AY-AZ things in a 100% privatized manner? And now you're starting to get more of those capabilities. So for Cloud Shell, this becomes interesting because Cloud Shell is rendered through a web browser. So you still need a service that you can connect to to go ahead and render that Cloud Shell session, right? You need to bring that back to me as, as a client. So the way that manifests itself is you're not just going to deploy Cloud Shell on a virtual network. You're going to draw some other dependencies here, and one of the big ones is going to be a dependency on Azure Relay. So Azure Relays, or you might've heard me talk about hybrid service bus relays in the past, but Azure Relay is a service. It's a, you have two disparate endpoints that are not able to directly reach each other. So like, in this case, Cloud Shell is sitting near virtual network and, okay, now it's isolated, and you're a client over here. So the relay can act as that go-between and help all that happen over a secure, over a secure tunnel.

- Got it. Interesting.

- Yeah, that's cool as well because you go like, well, hold on, we put Cloud Shell into a virtual network and now you're telling me I'm going to open up a relay and it's going to be on the public network, public internet. It doesn't have to be. Relays can be configured to do things like make them only accessible from a specific network or from a specific network segment. So you can almost think of like Cloud Shell Git, right, to get it going, which is really cool.

- Got it. Because if you can isolate all that, you can do site to site VPN and keep it all local and not have any public-facing access to it.

- Correct.

- Nice. I have another update. This one, I remember this being announced when it got, so when I saw this blog article, I remember this being announced, I think at Ignite last year, so almost a year ago. And do you remember when they talked about automatically adjusting people's gaze in video calls because even if you are watching this video on YouTube, I tend to look down here because your video is over here and I set up my camera up here. Microsoft was going to roll out the ability to actually fix your eyes so it looks like you're actually looking at the camera, even though you're not looking at the camera. That is now available. So it's powered by artificial intelligence and the onboard neural network accelerator. Eye contact helps to adjust the gaze in video calls and recordings so you can appear to be looking directly at the camera. Well, all of this is powered by AI. It is only available if you're using the Surface Pro X.

- That's everybody, right?

- Yeah, I mean--

- No?

- No. I think when I first saw this, I had the anticipation that, because it was all AI-based and kind of automatically doing that, they were going to roll it out as like a Team's feature, leveraging services in the cloud, so it could kind of pick up your eyes on the camera, and then adjust them in realtime on Teams video or something. Apparently no. There are still specific hardware requirements around those, and that is the Surface Pro X.

- All in due time.

- Yes, I don't know, oh, last year, Microsoft, with custom Microsoft silicon. There's something in the Microsoft silicon. We believe a various number of these AI experiences will be infused across other Surface products. I don't know there, but yeah, apparently there's some very specific hardware requirement with this eye adjustment that is in only the Surface Pro X and maybe as they update all the other Surface devices over a period of time, they'll start adding in the hardware or whatever is needed to do that eye adjustment. But it doesn't give me a lot of hope that this will come anytime soon to like my Teams video calls.

- Well now, your Team's calls, it be in your zoom calls when Zoom does it first.

- Maybe. I don't think we're supposed to say that. Oh, well, we said it. Yeah, we'll have to see. But that was, that was interesting more not from the perspective that it finally came out, but from the requirements on it, because that was not what I expected. And then one other thing, we don't need to spend a lot of time in this. If you are looking to get involved at Ignite, they have made all the announcements, virtual 48 hours a lot like they did Build. But if you are a community individual member and want to try to get involved, they have these table topics at Microsoft Ignite, and there's a open call for moderators for these table topics where it's essentially just moderating a small group discussion. So I think it kinda sounds like a lot like the sessions we did last year, Scott, where it's more of round table discussion and this will just be round table video discussion. And they did say that, from a community member perspective, everything I seen so far is this is the only way community members are going to get to be involved in Ignite because naturally, doing it virtually, they had to scale back, I think, a number of sessions, presenters. I mean, you just can't, you can't do an event the same way and you can't get as many people involved just due to the pure logistics of trying to organize that many virtual presenters. So go take a look at that if you want to get involved. Fill out the form in Microsoft Forms. I could a tie that in, I had so many segues into that one. You could tie that, go fill out the Microsoft form to see if you can get a table topic at Microsoft Ignite.

- Yeah, go fill out the form for the form, for the thing. So one more new thing, and I was ranting about this recently, did you see that potentially there is a change coming to Teams for a new conversation button?

- No.

- So that your reply is sitting in replies, and then underneath that, rather than just having another text box that you start typing into that looks like the reply box, you would have a button, imagine this, a button, like a real button that just says New Conversation on it.

- So you have to, so would the text box then be for replies, and if you wanted to start a new thread, you'd have to actually, it would take extra effort to start a new conversation when it'd be nice and easy to reply.

- That is what it looks like. So Louise Fries, one of the MVPs who does those awesome sketch notes, she posted a little animation of potentially what that button looks like and how it acts. So potentially coming to a tenant near you. But I haven't seen it announced anyplace place else.

- I haven't either, but that's interesting. That would be a very welcome addition. Although, to be fair, I don't have a lot of Teams conversations because I don't like to converse with myself in my own tenant. That's more when I'm guests in other tenants that I have conversations.

- I have a lot of conversations in Teams.

- I can imagine you do. Because you're probably not even allowed to use email. You probably only are allowed to use Teams.

- Something, something dog food.

- Yeah.

- Yeah. Now, you know, that's a funny thing--

- The email versus teams chats?

- Yeah, and there's certain, I think, like dogmatic principles around that, potentially, within even Microsoft. So one of the things my team does is we monitor, we monitor distribution lists, right? People can ask questions and they can kind of come to the program managers of the wider product group, and they can say, Hey, I'm running into a problem with X, Y, or Z. Can you help me out? Well, the way that mailing list was spun up was through a Team, through an Office 365 group that was then Teams-enabled. So it is a Team that has an email address associated with it. So now there's two things out there, right? There's a distribution list and there's the underlying Team that sits behind it. So you would think that over time, the DL would kind of die out, hopefully, and you could have more of those organic conversations in Teams. But what happens is the Teams, the Teams channels that are associated with that group, they're largely ignored and conversations, like somebody will ask a question in there and it'll sit for, you know, weeks sometimes until somebody comes in and says, Hey, you know, nobody responds to the things in here. send an email to the group. It's like, yeah, okay. Maybe there's ways for us to do better there.

- There's my own emoji. Yeah, I don't think we'll ever get away from email. It's going to take, I don't know. I have nothing, but I agree, I don't think chat conversations are the email-killer by any stretch of the imagination. My 2 cents, but with that, we should probably wrap it up for the day because I have a meeting, I have little time yet.

- Yeah, we've gotta refill the coffee.

- Yes, in my Microsoft cup, my Microsoft coffee cup, compliments of Ignite, that we won't be attending this year. We're going to have to figure out how to do the whole podcast thing with Ignite this year.

- Yup, yup, we'll get there.

- Yeah, we'll figure it out, because that's like a month away now.

- Alright, yes, September 22nd through the 24th.

- Yes, go work hard, reply to those emails.

- Thanks man.

- Alright, we'll talk to you later, Scott.

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