- [Ben] Welcome to episode 177 of the Microsoft cloud IT pro podcast recorded live on May eight 2020. This is a show about Microsoft 365 with Azure from the perspective of IT pros and its users where we discuss the topic or recent news and how it relates to you. In this episode, Scott and Ben take a more detailed look at the recently renamed and improved Microsoft 365 business plans and discuss with these updates, should friends now let friends by business? Everybody now his kids and dogs and all sorts of things or people or animals making noise in the background to their meetings.

- [Scot] Yeah, I think we're all getting better at it though, so maybe for those who haven't been doing the remote thing now that they've had a couple of weeks to not necessarily settle in to it, but experience it and recognizing that for some of us it's going to be coming for a long time. I think especially for technology companies, I mean Facebook announced that through the rest of 2020 just go for it.

- [Ben] Really, I missed that.

- [Scot] Yep, yep, go forth and do it. Amazon is at least October, Microsoft still has their campus effectively shut down. So it's gonna be a thing for a while and I think for us, like in this segment and this area, we're going to continue to experience it.

- [Ben] Yeah, although to be fair, I've been experiencing it for like 10 years now.

- [Scot] Yes.

- [Ben] My kids literally don't know what it's like for me to have to leave the house for work. They get upset when I have to leave to go to work. They're like, "Why do you have to leave?" Some people do these everyday guys.

- [Scot] You've done it again.

- [Ben] Yes. They just don't know what it's like to have daddy actually leave every day to go to work.

- [Scot] Man, you know, they'll have to figure out their own lives at some point, you know, let them grow up in flutter and all those things.

- [Ben] What it is. Yes, they'll realize it. Maybe, who knows? Maybe everybody will work for home for the rest of their lives. I think you are gonna see a lot more people or companies staying open to remote work 'cause this is forced everybody to figure it out. I know there's some people I've talked to that they're like, "This just does not work for us. "We're not as productive." All of that, we need to be at the same spot. But I think there's a lot of companies that are also realizing, "Hey, this isn't as unproductive "or as bad or as prohibitive to our daily activities "as we thought it was."

- [Scot] Yeah, interestingly, I also think lots of folks are gonna have to figure out the burnout factor and really starting it and mass in this time is a different thing then all of a sudden a company you phasing into remote work or just easing your way into it and figuring out what that balance is for, what is productivity at home? I think a lot of folks who are potentially looking at their teams and saying, "Well, we can't work remotely," oh, that's not attitude 'cause you're gonna have to figure out a way to do that in a lot of cases. And also by saying you can't, you're automatically throwing up a barrier to being successful there, but being able to align those times and boundaries between work and home life and recognizing that, yeah, this other thing is going on in the outside.

- [Ben] Yeah, it's interesting and there's definitely a difference between being forced to work remotely and like you said, having that gradual roll and have it being an option. I would say there's more challenges with the way it happened this way. Well, it has opened up a lot of eyes. It also is a lot more challenging when you do it this way. Than if it, like you said, it's a gradual roll in a gradual rollout, you start with options and just do it a little bit at a time. Doing it this way definitely has brought a whole set of challenges.

- [Scot] So one of the little things that gets me, is I have an established place to do work every day. I have my desk, it has my monitors, there's a nice warning ring on the desk where my coffee cup goes. There's a place for the keyboard, a place for my mouse, microphone, all those kinds of things. And my wife potentially transitioning to a remote role as a teacher. She's kind of settled on just one or two different places in the house to work in. And I've offered, like last night she's been working on an extra class and trying to do all these recordings for her students and things so she can put them up. So she came into the office and was sitting at my desk, which I'm normally on a laptop, but then it's just in clamshell plugged into all these monitors and she brought her laptop stand-in. She brought her keyboard in, brought her mouse in and she sat, stood up, it's a standing desk. So she stood up at the desk and I said all we gotta do is pull that little USBC cable out of my laptop and we can put it into yours and you could at least have the keyboard. And if you don't want the keyboard, keep using your keyboard 'cause that's all Bluetooth, that's fine. I get, you don't wanna use somebody else's mouse 'cause everybody's kind of partial to things like that, but you can totally use your keyboard and just all of a sudden have these screens like go ahead, have the 34-inch monitor and things like that. And she looked at me like I was crazy just like I couldn't be productive like that. I'm like, I couldn't be productive on a single screen.

- [Ben] Yeah, it's everybody figuring out how they work best. As IT professionals in the cloud era, sometimes it feels like we don't speak the same language as the rest of the organization. So when stakeholders from finance or other departments start asking about a specific project or Teams Azure costs, they don't always realize how much work is involved in obtaining that information. Sifting through cluttered CSVs and complex massive metadata in order to manually create custom views and reports. It's a real headache. On top of helping you understand and reduce your organization's overall Azure spend. ShareGate Overcast lets you group resources into meaningful cost hubs and map them to real-world business scenarios. This way you can track costs in the way that makes most sense with your corporate structure, whether it's by product, business unit, team or otherwise. It's a flexible, intuitive and business-friendly way of tracking Azure infrastructure costs and it's only available in ShareGate Overcast. Find out more on sharegate.com/itpro. So we have an interesting topic. This topic today, speaking of working came up probably about a month ago now. I think this has been out and I saw some articles about it and we kind of put some notes together and were like, "We should record this at some point in time." So today is your lucky day Scot.

- [Scot] Every day is my lucky day when I get to talk to you, Ben.

- [Ben] Aw, that's so sweet. That was a little weird. Now you got me all thrown off. It's been a long week. So we recorded an episode a while back. I don't even remember which episode it was where we said, "Friends do not let friends by business "when it comes to office 365," and we had a whole list of reasons why. About a month ago, Microsoft made some announcements that we talked about, about renaming the business 365 skews. And as a part of that, one of the, I would say new skews with some added features to it is you can now get Microsoft 365 business premium, which includes Windows 10, office 365... well no, that'd be Microsoft 365 business standard, I believe it's one of the Microsoft 365 business skews as well as essentially EMS. You're getting Azure active directory premium. So you get all three of those for $20 a month, which is the exact same price as a office 365 E3 plan. So a lot of people have been asking, "Why would I buy office 365 E3 for $20 "when I can get Microsoft 365 E3 "or Microsoft 365 business premium for $20 a month?" Why would I not get that one with all these other features, Windows 10, Azure active directory premium, it's essentially all the EMS stuff. Although we're gonna talk about, it's not all of that. So do friends still not let friends buy business or have they changed this enough that Microsoft 365 business premium is actually a very solid option now where you're not quite as handicapped as maybe you were before. So we figured we'd dive in, discuss that. There was also a blog article that came out around securing remote work, tying into our intro to using Microsoft 365 business premium.

- [Scot] And then that article really piggybacks and the concepts there piggyback kinda whole cons the licensing construct where they added Azure AD premium P1 to those licenses. So having access to conditional access I think ups the game and changes it a little bit. 'Cause that's one of those differentiators between those two skews.

- [Ben] It really is. And before it was always an Add-on and now all of a sudden it has come bundled. So we decided this episode, we're just gonna talk about Microsoft 365 business premium and where it actually does make some sense now. I think my opinion, we'll see what Scott thinks. As well as scenarios where frankly it still doesn't make sense even though there's more features to it as opposed to like the E3 plan.

- [Scot] Yeah, let's get into it.

- [Ben] Alright, so where do you wanna kick it off? How do you wanna kick it off?

- [Scot] So I tend to look at it from one of those clear differentiators between those business plans and the enterprise plans is the number of users that you can bring into those skews. So having a hard cap on the number of users, like if I was gonna build out a decision tree to say, should I even look at this product, is it for me? How many people do I need to license? Is it more than or less than 300? Because if I have more than 300 users who are gonna require these features, then it's still not the thing for me. I'm gonna have to go build a licensing bundle or hopefully find a suite of products like any three or any five that has it all built-in or I can do the base bundle, the SKU pack plus the Add-ons, things like that. So like I said, if I was gonna build the tree, that's where I would start, number of users regardless of functionality they need or anything else. That's your biggest probably upfront question that you need to answer.

- [Ben] Yup, I would agree. That's always my first question and well there are some feature differences that is that hard line in the sand of which way do you go, is gonna be your user account. If you're less than 300 you have a choice to make. If you're more than 300 there's like not a decision there. You just have to go with one of the E plans.

- [Scot] Yeah, you're just gonna go another way. And then from there, you might try to rationalize down cost or Add-ons or things like that as you go ahead and standing up the service. And I think what you could do is then maybe you could get into that feature comparison of if I'm into the whole office 365 E3 versus Microsoft 365 business premium. Then you might wanna decide what features are important to bring over for you along the way.

- [Ben] Yup and I think one of those, and I mentioned EMS at the beginning and that is not, it is just Azure AD premium plan one that's included in business. So for me, I think that's the next decision tree probably that plays into effect, although there's a couple here but one of his is going to be, do I need that full EMS suite where it comes to like the mobile application management, the Intune with the mobile device management, some of those extra features that are in the EMS suite that are licensed as EMS but aren't licensed as part of Azure AD premium P1 because Microsoft 365 business premium is only going to be Azure AD P1, not the rest of those EMS features that are included in office 365 E3 or in Microsoft 365 E3. I think that's probably the next biggest one in my opinion. I say probably, because it could come down to a few other ones.

- [Scot] So now that comes to another weird decision of do you need full-blown MDM? Like do you need full Intune for your devices? Like what does that look like for you? Or are you doing like Knox or something like that today or AirWatch and you wanna look to going to Intune or do you need MDM light and can you leverage built-in MDM capabilities? So there's always... 'Cause that exists as well. There's full-blown MDM with Intune and then there's, it used to be what they used to call it, it used to be called office 365 mobile device management. But now I think it's all just mobile device management for Microsoft 365 which is inclusive of some of the office 365 stuff where you get MDM light in it today anyway until potentially they go ahead and take that away.

- [Ben] Yeah.

- [Scot] So I think that's something to think about there too. 'Cause especially if I'm just doing maybe, I've always thought MDMs is a weird conversation to have, do you need MDM or you do you need MAM? So is it the data in the application that's really important or is it the whole device and kind of the surrounding ecosystem that's important. And certainly, if you're looking potentially, I think at that small business segment, like if you're looking at the 365 business premium, you're less than 300 users, I would bet for lots of folks that not having access to Intune isn't the end of the world 'cause I can still do my conditional access 'cause P1 is giving me access to that in Azure AD premium P1 and I can still do device management light and particularly application management. So being able to still have those application controls where I can have you come in, I can't ensure that you can only sign in to your device with your corporate identity. But I can make sure that you can only sign into outlook with your corporate identity and when you sign into outlook that you can't take any screenshots and that you can't be out on a jailbroken device. So have I protected your data there or not? It's always weird line to walk. But I think if you're a smaller business, like if you're in that 365 business premium skew, you're probably not looking for full-blown MDM anyway. You might want the features, but I guarantee you don't want the operational overhead of keeping it up.

- [Ben] Right, although you can't do my licensing matrix is failing me. You can't do the mobile application management with just Azure AD premium P one can you, isn't that still part of EMS? You can do conditional access, but not actually like the mayhem, selective wipe stuff or don't allow copy and paste between applications, that type of stuff.

- [Scot] Right, yeah. I think you're right there, but if I can stop you from logging into the app if you're on a, like an unregistered device or whatever it is.

- [Ben] Right, that goes a long ways.

- [Scot] You've got to weigh that out and decide where that's important to you organizationally.

- [Ben] Yeah, so yeah, figuring out where that is and truth be told, even the mobile application management versus the mobile device management, I'm shocked how many people like conditional access in some of that mobile application management. If you do that right, you really don't need a lot of the mobile device management as much. Even bigger companies, I'm surprised how many people just do the MAM and it's way easier to manage. So another one that comes out, especially if you're a small business when you are weighing Microsoft 365 business premium versus office 365 is Windows 10 pro and licensing that. If you've already bought a bunch of faxed copies of Windows 10 pro, you don't care about licensing Windows 10 pro, the office 365 E3 is gonna be fine. But one of the nice things about business is it does have a Windows 10 pro license. So if you want to do all of your cloud licensing, if you want to even look a little bit at like I think the Windows virtual desktop is included now in the Microsoft 365 business premium. if you be... Tripping over my own words that, but as well as, and this was when I learned the other day, is the licensing office applications, so Word, Excel, PowerPoint, desktop on a virtual desktop interface. I can't remember. Is that the CSA license or SCA? The shared, essentially the shared application license.

- [Scot] Yeah, whatever acronym they have going for it these days.

- [Ben] Yes, that is the only business plan that's included in this that Microsoft 365 business premium. So even though office applications are included in some of the lower business 365 plans, the only one that includes the shared application access is gonna be that business premium. So if you are looking for that virtual desktop interface, maybe looking at Windows virtual desktop, you want the shared applications, there's a lot of that. The Windows 10 for even desktop devices, all of that's in that Microsoft 365 business plan too. So if you need all of that, you're under 300 users, you don't need EMS. In that scenario Microsoft 365 business is a solid option as well.

- [Scot] Yeah, it starts to become more and more compelling. It does.

- [Ben] And I have one more compelling feature that they snuck out there. You can now add voice. This also used to be a big one. I heard this be a differentiating factor for one of my clients at one point in time was you used to not be able to do Skype or Cloud Voice, the whole cloud PBX, PSTN calling, all of that on a business plan that was only available on enterprise plans. Voice can now be added to Microsoft 365 business premium and I believe even some of the lower skews. So if you are a small business and you want to do voice calling, you can just license business plans as well now and not worry about the enterprise plan just to get voice.

- [Scot] So is that voice plan, is that different than business voice? 'Cause they've renamed all this stuff, right? Where say you have Microsoft 365 business voice, which is that's in the office 365 E3, the F1, it's in the Microsoft 365 E3, the Microsoft 365 business but not business premium.

- [Ben] I did not realize they renamed that one.

- [Scot] Well, I will make sure to put the article to, what is Microsoft 365 business voice.

- [Ben] Business voice that is, I was just looking up phone system, call trends for multilevel auto attendance call queues includes, okay, so Microsoft 365 business voice, they combined two plans into this. Microsoft 365 business voices is $20 a user a month. What you used to have, and you may still have, you may still be able to buy these separately because certain plans include certain features already. Cloud Voice, which was all of the auto-attendant, call queues, call transfer, voicemail, all of that. That was an $8 a month Add-on to just get the Cloud Voice functionality and then for $12 a user a month, you got those domestic calling plans or you could do domestic and international for 24 but it started $12 a month domestic calling plans. So you have your $12 a month for domestic calling. You had $8 a month for Cloud Voice. to get the features and the PSTN calling they took these and Microsoft 365 business voice now combines is $20 a month, which is your eight and 12 for your Cloud Voice and your domestic calling. And it includes both of those in one bundle.

- [Scot] Not confusing at all.

- [Ben] Not confusing at all. And I'd have to look into this 'cause I again, I missed this one. But when you get into the office 365 set of things like your Microsoft 365 E5 in your office 365 E5 already include the $8 a month Cloud Voice Add-on or all those entitlements. So if you're on one of those business E5 plans, you only need to license domestic calling.

- [Scot] Yeah, it's getting weird. And now you can't even search for Cloud Voice anymore 'cause it's all been subsumed by business voice. So you gotta be like, go search for the old phone system stuff and then hope you land on the right article. Although, but it's weird.

- [Ben] So are you looking at the business voice article?

- [Scot] Yeah.

- [Ben] It says down at the bottom, business voice requires the Microsoft 365 and that includes Teams. It's an Add-on subscription for up to 300 users that cannot be used standalone business voice, blah blah, blah, blah.

- [Scot] Yeah, yeah. It still aligns to those licensing limitations with those skews.

- [Ben] It aligns to the small business ones. But that means Cloud Voice should still exist for those enterprise skews.

- [Scot] Good luck figuring out where that's all written down now.

- [Ben] So as you're going, this is what happens when we stumble across random articles in the middle of the podcast. Oh, see options for enterprise. There's a little link. It's hiding. Voice and video calling with Microsoft Teams.

- [Scot] Yeah, it takes you into all the Teams stuff and 'cause now calling plans and all the documentation for phone system and calling plans and set up falls under Teams.

- [Ben] Oh, it's phone system. So it's not Cloud Voice. So if you're looking for the enterprise stuff, look for phone system for $8 and then calling plan pricing for your domestic and international. Outlook ends are a great way to improve productivity and save time in the workplace. And Sperry software has all the Add-ons you'll ever need. The save as PDF Add-on is a best seller. And it is great for project backups, legal discovery, and more. This add-in saves the email and attachments as PDF files. It's easy to download, easy to install, and Sperry software's unparalleled customer service is always ready to help. Download a free trial at sperrysoftware.com. S-P-E-R-R-Y S-O-F-T-W-A-R-E.com. and see for yourself how great save as PDF is. Listeners can get 20% off their order today by entering the code "cloudIT." That's cloud IT, C-L-O-U-D I-T, all one word at checkout. Sperry software work in email, not on email. So we all got that straight now, right? Microsoft 365 phones system is only for business plans. Office 365 requires a phone system and a calling plan. Did I say that right?

- No.

- No.

- [Scot] 365 business voice?

- [Ben] Yes.

- [Scot] Is for Microsoft--

- [Ben] Only for business plans.

- [Scot] Microsoft 365 business plans. Well, but not just the business plans 'cause you can also do it with office 365 E3s and F1s. So thanks Microsoft. Even though it still has that licensing limitation at 300 I don't know how that works.

- [Ben] That's bizarre.

- [Scot] It's clearly called out in the licensing. If your organization has fewer than 300 people and you have office 365 E1, E3 or F1, you can also do it. You can also do it with the A1 and A3. So you can do it with the education plans.

- [Ben] Which I mean it does kind of make sense because reality is the pricing didn't change. If you go buy that for $20 or if you go buy phone system and domestic calling for $8 and $12 respectively. Either way, at least they kept that consistent. You're gonna be paying $20 a month to add some type of phone capability and to anything lower than a business or enterprise E5 plan.

- [Scot] There you go. The documentation might not be consistent, but the pricing is, oh, wow.

- [Ben] So that is another, again, that used to be a differentiator between the two and a reason not to go buy business is if you ever looking at phone systems now or shortly, what was the date on that? You can put them onto both. I know they announced it was coming. I think it's already there.

- [Scot] I mean it looks like it's already there. I haven't spot up a business tenant in a couple of weeks, but maybe that'll be the thing to do. We'll go spin up a business tenant and see if it can be added.

- [Ben] Yeah, it looks like it's all there. The data I saw was around pricing. So pricing includes or pricing includes required communication and taxes and fees until June 30th, 2021. I don't know if that means your prices are gonna go up a little bit for taxes and fees on June 30th. I don't know if there's something that's being waived because of COVID right now and that's why those prices include taxes and fees until June 30th. Not exactly sure what's going on there. But yeah, June 30th will appear as a separate charge only in the US starting on June 30th. So there's some goofiness going on there, but that shouldn't be too much.

- [Scot] Alright, cool. So there's some things that are similar and there's some things that are more than similar. Almost to the same between them. But when you're going through that rationalization exercise of saying, so I've got less users, I'm within that 300 boundary. So now I've gone down this difficult road of trying figure it out. What is business actually missing when you compare it to like an office 365 E3?

- [Ben] So there are a couple things that it is missing in terms of just like functional specs when it comes to certain services. So exchange online is one of the biggest ones that you're gonna notice some differences. An argument could be made whether you actually need this or not, but smaller exchange mailboxes. So your business 365 plans are essentially running exchange online plan one where your enterprise plans are gonna be exchange online plan two at least when it comes to like E3 and E5. So that means that you have a 50 gig mailbox instead of a hundred gig mailbox for business premium versus office 365 E3. However, archiving the business 365 premium does appear to include like a 100-gigabyte expanding archive. So as you archive it'll grow. So there could be an argument made for why do we need a hundred gigabytes if I can just archive everything, 50 gigabytes and archiving more frequently is probably adequate.

- [Scot] That depends on how you access that mailbox and what it looks like. Like do I access that from mobile devices? How hard is it for me to work with the archive from mobile? Like there're weird limitations there and then I believe you probably know better than me, but the office 365 enterprise archives, those are still billed as unlimited archives, right? Ever-expanding?

- [Ben] Yeah. But they all start. So I think there's similar to the business ones because they all start at a hundred gigs and the business premium ones based on what I think I saw was those ever expand to, it's still an unlimited.

- [Scot] Gotcha.

- [Ben] At least up at that premium level. And then some of the e-Discovery. So when I started looking through like a feature by feature breakdown using service descriptions, O365sd.com.

- [Scot] There actually is a great one out there 'cause they do have, so one of the things they didn't used to do was have to plan options or it was never always a great way to do it to get the business plans and the E-plans all together on the same page.

- [Ben] Yep.

- [Scot] And now they do. So again, this is another link I'll put in the show notes. You can go to office 365 plan options and it breaks down the whole family. So it's inclusive of everything in business. So Microsoft 365 business basic, apps for business, business standard and then all of the office 365 enterprise as well as education skews, which is super awesome to see.

- [Ben] Perfect, yeah. So things like advanced e-Discovery are only in those enterprise plans. There's probably some small businesses that would use it. Do you think like lawyer, some law firms that are probably, there's a lot of law firms that are probably less than 300 users that may have a need for advanced e-Discovery just due to their line of work. Some of that stuff isn't going to get included with your office 365 plans or your business premium plans, so I can't remember. The other one I was gonna look at was... Do you have that chart in front of you? Data loss prevention is one that also tends to... No, that when I did look at. That one as included in everything. Data lost prevention is, e-Discovery is not or advanced e-Discovery. The business premium plans do include in-place holds and in place e-Discovery just not some of those more advanced features. So really go take a look at those service descriptions. Don't look at this at a super high level, but.

- [Scot] Yeah, you have to avoid the marketing and the pricing pages and do all of that at a lower level. They actually used to provide Excel spreadsheets for these where you could do kind of pivots and filters and sorts. I've always found it helpful to go and make my own for those. So it is possible to still copy and paste the tables and things just directly out of the HTML or the markdown, the on rendered markdown that's so free and get hub and put that into Excel and be able to do those pivots based on how you want them. 'Cause there's gonna be a lot of noise in there that you can just kind of cut the noise out and get it to be what it needs to be.

- [Ben] Right, so the first thing I do, I copy and paste all those into Excel and I create a table and then I filter on the skew I'm looking for all the nos. So just show me everything under business premium that is set to "no" because that means that's not included and then it makes it a lot easier to start from there when you're comparing what's a no in that column versus a yes in one of my enterprise columns.

- [Scot] Yup, just go ahead and delete the skews you don't want and you get to where you need to be.

- [Ben] Exactly.

- [Scot] It's a little rough, right? I think you're in a potentially a little bit of a handicap position may be coming in as a small business and somebody like you or I saying, well your best bet is to copy and paste from HTML site into a spreadsheet and figure it out. Versus being an enterprise where you know if you're buying thousands and thousands of seats, you're gonna have a salesperson at Microsoft who's very keen to sell those to you and they're helping you figure that out.

- [Ben] Or you have a finance guy that really likes Excel and if you say, "Hey, "can you go build me some really fancy Excel spreadsheet?" They'll like go hide in their cubicle for hours to create an incredible Excel spreadsheet for you.

- [Scot] No more cubicle Ben.

- [Ben] No offense to anybody that's in finance and really likes their Excel spreadsheets. But yeah, we didn't even get into our last blog article about securing everything. Your practical guide to securing remote work.

- [Scot] I think securities, maybe that's when we can hold off on and have as a conversation at another time 'cause it does, I think it goes out a little outside the boundaries of what I put it in there about what we were originally gonna talk about. 'Cause we'll get into kind of specifics thereof some things that you may or may not want to consider turning on. Like what are must-haves versus not must-haves. If you have access to these types of features. Like if you've got the licensing, you're definitely gonna want to turn some things on. Like full stop, they should just be on by default. Microsoft might not turn them on by default for you but they'll certainly be very vocal and I think you and I would be too about, "Hey let's light up the things that really makes sense."

- [Ben] Yes, absolutely. So, to be continued next week 'cause we don't have a topic pick for next week yet, we will talk about securing in which features you should turn on and off and how you can take advantage of these new skews. And the security offerings they're in.

- [Scot] Yeah, perfect, absolutely.

- [Ben] All right, well, let us go enjoy the rest of the sunny day from the confines of our house.

- [Scot] Yes, this is the way.

- [Ben] We will talk to you next week about that security article.

- [Scot] Thanks, Ben.

- [Ben] All right, thanks, Scott. If you enjoyed the podcast, go leave us a five-star rating in iTunes. It helps to get the word out so more IT pros can learn about office 365 and Azure. If you have any questions you want us to address on the show or feedback about the show, feel free to reach out via our website, Twitter or Facebook. Thanks again for listening and have a great day.